1 00:00:05,630 --> 00:00:03,409 next wednesday it begins now quest to 2 00:00:08,150 --> 00:00:05,640 find australia's most gifted psychic 3 00:00:10,190 --> 00:00:08,160 with your believer or a skeptic he 4 00:00:13,430 --> 00:00:10,200 didn't get it he didn't get it who will 5 00:00:16,580 --> 00:00:13,440 be the one the search for Australia's 6 00:00:26,779 --> 00:00:16,590 most gifted something against the real 7 00:00:29,060 --> 00:00:26,789 thing next wednesday on seven welcome to 8 00:00:32,770 --> 00:00:29,070 the skeptic zone the podcast from 9 00:00:46,779 --> 00:00:32,780 australia for science and reason 10 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:46,789 oh yes yes it starts this wednesday 11 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:49,370 folks this wednesday the one here in 12 00:00:55,329 --> 00:00:52,610 australia on channel 7 730 this 13 00:00:57,459 --> 00:00:55,339 wednesday the fifth of october it's the 14 00:01:01,209 --> 00:00:57,469 TV show starring yours truly Richard 15 00:01:03,490 --> 00:01:01,219 Saunders as The Skeptical judge or the 16 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:03,500 skeptical judge will I be skeptical 17 00:01:07,690 --> 00:01:05,690 enough that's the question if you're in 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:07,700 Australia and you want to have a bit of 19 00:01:14,139 --> 00:01:10,490 a laugh cheering for channel 7 the one 20 00:01:16,930 --> 00:01:14,149 this week and you'll see what I look 21 00:01:20,740 --> 00:01:16,940 like because i had an email awhile back 22 00:01:23,139 --> 00:01:20,750 from somebody listener who thought i had 23 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:23,149 a beard because i didn't see a picture 24 00:01:28,359 --> 00:01:24,890 of me that's very interesting no i don't 25 00:01:31,389 --> 00:01:28,369 have a beard glasses though yes glasses 26 00:01:33,820 --> 00:01:31,399 got all my hair to be great but I don't 27 00:01:36,070 --> 00:01:33,830 have a beer this is Richard Saunders 28 00:01:40,749 --> 00:01:36,080 talking to you from Sydney Australia for 29 00:01:44,410 --> 00:01:40,759 the skeptic Zone episode number 154 for 30 00:01:46,810 --> 00:01:44,420 the first of October 2011 and what a 31 00:01:49,899 --> 00:01:46,820 great show we felt lined up for you this 32 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:49,909 week I speak to dr. sheila lane from 33 00:01:56,050 --> 00:01:53,990 sense about science in the UK since 34 00:01:58,950 --> 00:01:56,060 about science this is a wonderful 35 00:02:03,359 --> 00:01:58,960 website and a great opportunity for 36 00:02:05,770 --> 00:02:03,369 everybody to get more information about 37 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:05,780 science and if you've got scientific 38 00:02:12,870 --> 00:02:09,049 type questions or confusion this is the 39 00:02:17,319 --> 00:02:12,880 place to to go to sense about science 40 00:02:22,539 --> 00:02:17,329 org is the website the twitter the 41 00:02:25,150 --> 00:02:22,549 twitter is at sense about sie s CI since 42 00:02:28,030 --> 00:02:25,160 about sigh certainly worth following on 43 00:02:31,060 --> 00:02:28,040 twitter dr. sheila lane will tell us all 44 00:02:34,180 --> 00:02:31,070 about what they do that sense about 45 00:02:37,180 --> 00:02:34,190 science their outreach and their service 46 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:37,190 to the public and it's something we at 47 00:02:41,229 --> 00:02:39,170 the skeptic zone certainly support 48 00:02:43,270 --> 00:02:41,239 following that interview we have Peter 49 00:02:44,370 --> 00:02:43,280 Budaj from Australian skeptics and 50 00:02:47,220 --> 00:02:44,380 ratbag 51 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:47,230 dot com with a little piece he wrote 52 00:02:55,110 --> 00:02:50,850 about his efforts to be heard on various 53 00:02:57,570 --> 00:02:55,120 anti-vaccination forums very interesting 54 00:03:00,960 --> 00:02:57,580 piece that he wrote and after that it's 55 00:03:04,980 --> 00:03:00,970 dr. Richie reports reporting about a 56 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:04,990 strange new collaboration it would seem 57 00:03:10,380 --> 00:03:07,410 between the pharmacy guild and the 58 00:03:13,260 --> 00:03:10,390 Blackmore's company here in Australia 59 00:03:16,140 --> 00:03:13,270 something dr. Rachel many people aren't 60 00:03:19,940 --> 00:03:16,150 very happy about and to round off the 61 00:03:24,020 --> 00:03:19,950 show it's dr. H again taking part in a 62 00:03:28,350 --> 00:03:24,030 television spot report up all about oh 63 00:03:31,110 --> 00:03:28,360 yes oh how old favorite ear candles now 64 00:03:33,870 --> 00:03:31,120 this was a report filed on the TV show 65 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:33,880 today tonight on channel 7 and to make 66 00:03:37,890 --> 00:03:36,010 things perfectly clear I do have a 67 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:37,900 commercial agreement with the seven 68 00:03:42,990 --> 00:03:40,330 network of course being on on that 69 00:03:45,630 --> 00:03:43,000 network is on the TV show however al 70 00:03:48,210 --> 00:03:45,640 good friend reporter Frank Bangalow at 71 00:03:50,130 --> 00:03:48,220 today tonight in Adelaide was looking 72 00:03:52,290 --> 00:03:50,140 after this story and he's done a lot of 73 00:03:54,540 --> 00:03:52,300 good skeptical stories i must say from 74 00:03:57,180 --> 00:03:54,550 her ear candles to homeopathy to the 75 00:04:01,290 --> 00:03:57,190 power balance so good on you Frank that 76 00:04:04,470 --> 00:04:01,300 audio from that report about the bizarre 77 00:04:07,410 --> 00:04:04,480 world of ear candles will round off this 78 00:04:08,970 --> 00:04:07,420 episode of the skeptic zone thank you to 79 00:04:11,550 --> 00:04:08,980 those people who have been donating to 80 00:04:13,170 --> 00:04:11,560 the skeptic zone you might remember we 81 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:13,180 have a little bit of a drive on at the 82 00:04:18,420 --> 00:04:15,010 moment to help get our reporter Maynard 83 00:04:21,539 --> 00:04:18,430 we're trying to get him to Tam 10 tam 10 84 00:04:24,750 --> 00:04:21,549 in Las Vegas which is in july twenty or 85 00:04:26,460 --> 00:04:24,760 twenty twelve or twenty twelve might be 86 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:26,470 the last time too because of the world 87 00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:28,330 ends at the end of her 22 ordinates 88 00:04:35,130 --> 00:04:32,290 another story if you want to help if you 89 00:04:39,150 --> 00:04:35,140 want to help get may not over to Tam run 90 00:04:41,390 --> 00:04:39,160 to www scripting zone TV and I click the 91 00:04:44,850 --> 00:04:41,400 link and you can for a dollar a week 92 00:04:46,700 --> 00:04:44,860 that's it just one dollar a week help 93 00:04:49,710 --> 00:04:46,710 the skeptic zone and help get Maynard 94 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:49,720 over to Tam tend to get lots of 95 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:53,530 interviews for you to enjoy but right 96 00:04:56,930 --> 00:04:55,450 now I'm going to run downstairs and I'm 97 00:05:00,710 --> 00:04:56,940 going to enjoy 98 00:05:03,410 --> 00:05:00,720 a nice hot cup of ginger tea and some 99 00:05:08,150 --> 00:05:03,420 gingerbread there may be a gingersnap 100 00:05:23,420 --> 00:05:08,160 and anything else ginger hmm and let you 101 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:26,280 and I'm delighted to say I have dr. 102 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:28,570 Sheila lane on the line all the way 103 00:05:35,850 --> 00:05:30,610 through the wonderful internet from the 104 00:05:38,460 --> 00:05:35,860 UK hello Sheila hi retro tie now I been 105 00:05:41,190 --> 00:05:38,470 looking at sense about science website 106 00:05:42,750 --> 00:05:41,200 and I must compliment whoever put it 107 00:05:45,930 --> 00:05:42,760 together it's a really slick 108 00:05:47,070 --> 00:05:45,940 professional looking website but there 109 00:05:48,750 --> 00:05:47,080 are lots of professional looking 110 00:05:52,470 --> 00:05:48,760 websites out there but of course the 111 00:05:55,020 --> 00:05:52,480 important thing is the content behind 112 00:05:57,540 --> 00:05:55,030 the the slick looking website is very 113 00:05:59,460 --> 00:05:57,550 important and I must also congratulate 114 00:06:02,490 --> 00:05:59,470 you on that how important is it for 115 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:02,500 something an organization like sense 116 00:06:07,140 --> 00:06:04,210 about science to have a good web 117 00:06:08,430 --> 00:06:07,150 presence do you think oh well it's very 118 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:08,440 important thank you very much for your 119 00:06:12,390 --> 00:06:10,450 very kind words we worked very hard on 120 00:06:14,190 --> 00:06:12,400 this website it's quite new we're just 121 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:14,200 moving into it so we're certainly open 122 00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:17,050 for hearing any feedback we can on us so 123 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:18,430 everybody should let us know what they 124 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:20,530 think if I know details on the website 125 00:06:24,570 --> 00:06:22,000 it is of course it's important it's 126 00:06:26,940 --> 00:06:24,580 today it's the main way we communicate 127 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:26,950 with most of our supporters is to our 128 00:06:31,650 --> 00:06:28,690 website people come to our site for all 129 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:31,660 sorts of different reasons we have many 130 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:33,370 many different kinds of audiences like 131 00:06:36,540 --> 00:06:35,170 journals and individuals and 132 00:06:37,740 --> 00:06:36,550 organizations and groups that we work 133 00:06:39,390 --> 00:06:37,750 with who come to the website for all 134 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:39,400 sorts of different reasons and for 135 00:06:43,170 --> 00:06:41,650 different to find different things so 136 00:06:45,210 --> 00:06:43,180 it's crucial for us at the website is 137 00:06:47,430 --> 00:06:45,220 clear and explain to we are what we do 138 00:06:49,170 --> 00:06:47,440 it's very quickly and easily so that 139 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:49,180 everybody knows what they can different 140 00:06:52,110 --> 00:06:50,410 things they can get from us once we get 141 00:06:55,050 --> 00:06:52,120 there sometimes you like it we've worked 142 00:06:58,250 --> 00:06:55,060 hard on us I really do I it's a lovely 143 00:07:00,210 --> 00:06:58,260 sleek design but it's very intuitive and 144 00:07:01,650 --> 00:07:00,220 everything that you sort of want to know 145 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:01,660 quickly is right in front of your face 146 00:07:06,090 --> 00:07:03,490 which is really great a big about us 147 00:07:07,950 --> 00:07:06,100 link and what the work is you do and I'm 148 00:07:10,620 --> 00:07:07,960 very impressed I I clicked on the 149 00:07:12,810 --> 00:07:10,630 publication's link and I was very 150 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:12,820 impressed indeed about the matter of 151 00:07:17,810 --> 00:07:14,650 free material you have on there ready 152 00:07:21,090 --> 00:07:17,820 for eager young people like me Yong Yong 153 00:07:23,130 --> 00:07:21,100 ready for Eagle people like me and young 154 00:07:25,220 --> 00:07:23,140 people around the world to download and 155 00:07:30,610 --> 00:07:25,230 I was taken by one of the pdfs there 156 00:07:34,060 --> 00:07:30,620 I've got nothing to lose by trying it up 157 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:34,070 republished that in 2008 with some 158 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:36,770 neurological charities such as the MS 159 00:07:42,610 --> 00:07:39,290 Society over here in parkinson's UK it 160 00:07:44,020 --> 00:07:42,620 was in response to rising reports from 161 00:07:47,050 --> 00:07:44,030 these groups that we work with of 162 00:07:49,689 --> 00:07:47,060 miracle cures and one trick on proven 163 00:07:51,820 --> 00:07:49,699 treatments being promoted online for 164 00:07:53,770 --> 00:07:51,830 chronic diseases such as ms and 165 00:07:55,150 --> 00:07:53,780 parkinson's and we worked at them to 166 00:07:57,340 --> 00:07:55,160 produce I've got nothing to lose by 167 00:07:59,230 --> 00:07:57,350 trying it which is a guide to Wayne up 168 00:08:01,780 --> 00:07:59,240 claimed the but cures and treatments for 169 00:08:03,870 --> 00:08:01,790 long-term conditions we call this about 170 00:08:06,219 --> 00:08:03,880 nothing to lose by China's because 171 00:08:07,450 --> 00:08:06,229 talking to these these groups of 172 00:08:09,279 --> 00:08:07,460 patients and people are suffering from 173 00:08:11,740 --> 00:08:09,289 these diseases we realize that that's 174 00:08:13,540 --> 00:08:11,750 where people kind of end up they keep 175 00:08:16,150 --> 00:08:13,550 again when you get a diagnosis of our 176 00:08:17,500 --> 00:08:16,160 car on the condition you have a 177 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:17,510 diagnosis but you know that you're not 178 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:18,650 going to get a cure it's something 179 00:08:22,060 --> 00:08:20,810 you're going to have forever on all you 180 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:22,070 can do is try and live as best you can 181 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:23,930 and you find yourself in that place 182 00:08:28,990 --> 00:08:27,050 where friends and relatives very well 183 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:29,000 many people are coming to you every day 184 00:08:32,890 --> 00:08:31,370 with clipping some newspapers are ads 185 00:08:34,029 --> 00:08:32,900 for products they've seen on the 186 00:08:35,469 --> 00:08:34,039 internet saying why don't you try this 187 00:08:37,269 --> 00:08:35,479 for let me try this any kind of think 188 00:08:43,089 --> 00:08:37,279 well yeah I suppose I've got nothing to 189 00:08:44,890 --> 00:08:43,099 lose by china's house oh yes yeah it's a 190 00:08:47,890 --> 00:08:44,900 very tough place to be so this guide was 191 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:47,900 to help people with the tools so they 192 00:08:52,210 --> 00:08:50,570 can answer those well mailing friends 193 00:08:53,350 --> 00:08:52,220 and family who come to them and make 194 00:08:55,210 --> 00:08:53,360 sense of the things that come across 195 00:08:58,600 --> 00:08:55,220 themselves being promotional location 196 00:08:59,980 --> 00:08:58,610 websites and things what are the 197 00:09:01,300 --> 00:08:59,990 problems of those groups are not weird 198 00:09:03,850 --> 00:09:01,310 sense about science I've been struggling 199 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:03,860 with for a while are things like people 200 00:09:07,750 --> 00:09:05,690 pretending to be patients going on to 201 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:07,760 patient support forums promoting 202 00:09:11,410 --> 00:09:09,650 products I'm saying oh this works for me 203 00:09:12,970 --> 00:09:11,420 absolutely amazing promoting all these 204 00:09:15,790 --> 00:09:12,980 dodgy treatments of they themselves are 205 00:09:17,230 --> 00:09:15,800 manufacturing and there's sort of kind 206 00:09:19,449 --> 00:09:17,240 of two ways you can respond to that you 207 00:09:24,579 --> 00:09:19,459 can either ask those the patient groups 208 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:24,589 to police every for every posting on the 209 00:09:27,550 --> 00:09:26,330 support for my check every link in check 210 00:09:29,890 --> 00:09:27,560 the validity of everything that's been 211 00:09:31,449 --> 00:09:29,900 talked about which probably wouldn't 212 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:31,459 work even if anybody actually wanted to 213 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:34,010 do that or we think the only solution 214 00:09:37,180 --> 00:09:35,450 the better solution may be the only 215 00:09:39,730 --> 00:09:37,190 solution is to take the people being 216 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:39,740 preyed upon and help them give them the 217 00:09:44,079 --> 00:09:41,810 questions to make sense of things and 218 00:09:47,860 --> 00:09:44,089 help them do things for themselves 219 00:09:49,809 --> 00:09:47,870 it's it so really it's an old tale and 220 00:09:51,519 --> 00:09:49,819 when you're in the skeptical industry 221 00:09:54,699 --> 00:09:51,529 you've certainly heard about this talent 222 00:09:58,389 --> 00:09:54,709 for them it works for me you should try 223 00:10:00,549 --> 00:09:58,399 this my mother swore by this look don't 224 00:10:03,220 --> 00:10:00,559 listen to the doctors try this treatment 225 00:10:05,949 --> 00:10:03,230 and on it goes and in fact our very own 226 00:10:07,569 --> 00:10:05,959 Loretta Marin very famous in Australia 227 00:10:10,509 --> 00:10:07,579 known as a jellybean lady who was a 228 00:10:13,030 --> 00:10:10,519 breast cancer sufferer was bombarded 229 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:13,040 with all sorts of well well meaning to a 230 00:10:17,019 --> 00:10:15,050 large extent of people not suggesting 231 00:10:19,569 --> 00:10:17,029 that they she try this that the other 232 00:10:22,119 --> 00:10:19,579 and people do lose their lives of course 233 00:10:25,389 --> 00:10:22,129 we know when they give up tried and true 234 00:10:26,860 --> 00:10:25,399 methods all right and pursue pursue 235 00:10:30,249 --> 00:10:26,870 somebody so I'm very glad you've got 236 00:10:32,139 --> 00:10:30,259 that PDF there with with good advice for 237 00:10:36,189 --> 00:10:32,149 everybody but but my goodness me what a 238 00:10:38,049 --> 00:10:36,199 list of other resources you have detox 239 00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:38,059 you've got things about detox making 240 00:10:45,340 --> 00:10:40,399 sense of chemical stories they're 241 00:10:47,619 --> 00:10:45,350 testing screening radiation GM it just 242 00:10:49,419 --> 00:10:47,629 goes on and on and on a fantastic Oh 243 00:10:52,689 --> 00:10:49,429 standing up for science now that looks 244 00:10:54,730 --> 00:10:52,699 like an interesting download it must 245 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:54,740 give you great heart to be able to 246 00:11:00,280 --> 00:10:57,170 distribute such good information about 247 00:11:02,350 --> 00:11:00,290 science out to the world absolutely it 248 00:11:04,780 --> 00:11:02,360 is I love working for sense about 249 00:11:07,179 --> 00:11:04,790 science we're a charity so we're a small 250 00:11:08,889 --> 00:11:07,189 organization where H for some employees 251 00:11:10,210 --> 00:11:08,899 at the moment all of us have science 252 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:10,220 backgrounds but have has moved out of 253 00:11:14,079 --> 00:11:12,050 the lab or out of academia to work for 254 00:11:16,119 --> 00:11:14,089 the society where our tagline are 255 00:11:18,759 --> 00:11:16,129 raising that is to equip people to make 256 00:11:20,879 --> 00:11:18,769 sense of science and evidence and we do 257 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:20,889 this with the help of a database of 258 00:11:25,929 --> 00:11:24,170 5,000 and more expert specialists in 259 00:11:26,949 --> 00:11:25,939 almost every field of science and 260 00:11:29,199 --> 00:11:26,959 medicine and engineering that you can 261 00:11:32,350 --> 00:11:29,209 think of who volunteer their time and 262 00:11:34,869 --> 00:11:32,360 help us in support arranged as well well 263 00:11:36,669 --> 00:11:34,879 as science bodies and special and 264 00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:36,679 learned societies and civic groups as 265 00:11:40,239 --> 00:11:37,790 well over here in the UK and 266 00:11:41,919 --> 00:11:40,249 internationally as well we respond to 267 00:11:43,329 --> 00:11:41,929 the misrepresentation of science and 268 00:11:45,999 --> 00:11:43,339 scientific evidence on issues that 269 00:11:47,650 --> 00:11:46,009 matter to society and we do that by 270 00:11:50,079 --> 00:11:47,660 working with these scientists and civic 271 00:11:52,439 --> 00:11:50,089 groups to share the tools and insights 272 00:11:54,939 --> 00:11:52,449 of scientific reasoning with the public 273 00:11:56,860 --> 00:11:54,949 we've been working with scientists for 274 00:11:57,070 --> 00:11:56,870 years and years challenging missing for 275 00:12:02,020 --> 00:11:57,080 me 276 00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:02,030 example from an area are the age of the 277 00:12:07,540 --> 00:12:04,910 earth or causes of cancer or has 278 00:12:10,270 --> 00:12:07,550 implications of Wi-Fi radiation none 279 00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:10,280 it's been very effective but and we 280 00:12:13,690 --> 00:12:11,920 produced all of these documents 281 00:12:15,370 --> 00:12:13,700 responding to misinformation on 282 00:12:16,810 --> 00:12:15,380 misconceptions in particular debates 283 00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:16,820 about particular content to subject 284 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:18,710 somewhere or controversial subjects and 285 00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:21,050 it has been effective but we kind of got 286 00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:22,160 to the point now where we're realizing 287 00:12:27,010 --> 00:12:24,320 as soon as we turn our back on an issue 288 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:27,020 or as soon as attention isn't been paid 289 00:12:32,860 --> 00:12:29,810 from Thomas you then misleading claims 290 00:12:35,950 --> 00:12:32,870 creeps back up into discussion again and 291 00:12:37,540 --> 00:12:35,960 even where there are regulators in areas 292 00:12:40,540 --> 00:12:37,550 like advertising and trading samples 293 00:12:41,980 --> 00:12:40,550 Trading Standards for example they're 294 00:12:44,860 --> 00:12:41,990 overworked and they're overwhelmed and 295 00:12:46,660 --> 00:12:44,870 people get away with making misleading 296 00:12:48,610 --> 00:12:46,670 claims or claims not based on good 297 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:48,620 evidence just by making little tweaks 298 00:12:54,700 --> 00:12:50,810 and proclaims keep cropping up again and 299 00:12:56,860 --> 00:12:54,710 again and again so we slide it we know 300 00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:56,870 that it's time to try and really make a 301 00:13:01,720 --> 00:12:59,120 permanent difference so that's why last 302 00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:01,730 week we launched campaign called ask for 303 00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:04,910 evidence you have your evidence campaign 304 00:13:09,190 --> 00:13:07,190 where and if people go to the website 305 00:13:11,980 --> 00:13:09,200 which is of course since about science 306 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:11,990 org they can download a little button 307 00:13:18,330 --> 00:13:14,210 they can put on their own website we try 308 00:13:21,460 --> 00:13:18,340 to bring people to the good information 309 00:13:23,860 --> 00:13:21,470 yes yes oh and we want as many people as 310 00:13:25,390 --> 00:13:23,870 possible to see what opportunity here 311 00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:25,400 about their campaign because that's the 312 00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:27,440 only way to make permanent difference is 313 00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:28,880 to get more and more people as 314 00:13:33,820 --> 00:13:31,310 challenging misleading claims when they 315 00:13:35,650 --> 00:13:33,830 see them by asking the advertisers other 316 00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:35,660 companies other government bodies are 317 00:13:41,020 --> 00:13:37,910 other organizations for the evidence 318 00:13:43,450 --> 00:13:41,030 behind the claims yes and looking at the 319 00:13:46,990 --> 00:13:43,460 website here the web page for ask for 320 00:13:51,490 --> 00:13:47,000 evidence you have got what do we say a 321 00:13:53,980 --> 00:13:51,500 bevy of stars a celestial realm of true 322 00:13:56,170 --> 00:13:53,990 scientific stars who are really really 323 00:13:59,020 --> 00:13:56,180 getting behind this ask for evidence 324 00:14:02,670 --> 00:13:59,030 campaign that's right we have a galaxy 325 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:02,680 of stars on a runway we have Alex 326 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:06,530 whatever you have we have from the top 327 00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:08,090 scientists in the UK are supporting this 328 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:09,920 campaign including people like support 329 00:14:13,620 --> 00:14:10,690 nurse who's a 330 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:13,630 the Royal Society over here and many 331 00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:15,850 many of the really high profile 332 00:14:19,950 --> 00:14:18,160 scientists that we work with who of 333 00:14:22,290 --> 00:14:19,960 course once people always ask evidence 334 00:14:24,350 --> 00:14:22,300 and get the evidence behind claims but 335 00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:24,360 we also have support from people like 336 00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:26,800 darren brown not sure how big Derren 337 00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:28,240 Brown to be inserted it be a very very 338 00:14:33,090 --> 00:14:29,440 famous down here yes absolutely 339 00:14:34,380 --> 00:14:33,100 fantastic he's a great guy he's any no 340 00:14:36,690 --> 00:14:34,390 years I don't you tell you and you know 341 00:14:38,490 --> 00:14:36,700 that he's a champion of giving people 342 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:38,500 the questions to get behind appearances 343 00:14:41,820 --> 00:14:40,330 and he's always trying to help us 344 00:14:43,860 --> 00:14:41,830 understand when something that looks 345 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:43,870 like it's not a coincidence actually is 346 00:14:47,220 --> 00:14:45,490 and those kind of question she's 347 00:14:49,770 --> 00:14:47,230 fantastic about then he's always been in 348 00:14:52,110 --> 00:14:49,780 support of ours we also have people 349 00:14:53,790 --> 00:14:52,120 high-profile names here like Jonathan 350 00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:53,800 Ross is a presenter and Dorian and 351 00:14:59,010 --> 00:14:57,760 they'd burn your comedians to support 352 00:15:02,190 --> 00:14:59,020 what we do and aren't just there just 353 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:02,200 adds big names and you know the glitz to 354 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:03,930 our campaign but are there because they 355 00:15:07,860 --> 00:15:06,250 really believe this way of always being 356 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:07,870 champions there's going to be people to 357 00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:10,690 ask questions and ask if it wasn't to 358 00:15:13,950 --> 00:15:12,160 help vulnerable people make sense of 359 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:13,960 things they're all really really great 360 00:15:19,620 --> 00:15:16,810 people as well as those individuals 361 00:15:21,330 --> 00:15:19,630 where were you pleased are dozens and 362 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:21,340 dozens of organizations are getting 363 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:22,930 aboard and supporting the campaign and 364 00:15:27,330 --> 00:15:25,210 telling their audiences that it's time 365 00:15:29,850 --> 00:15:27,340 to ask for evidence organizations like 366 00:15:31,830 --> 00:15:29,860 patient groups all sorts of different 367 00:15:34,140 --> 00:15:31,840 patient groups civic society 368 00:15:35,580 --> 00:15:34,150 organisations consumer organizations as 369 00:15:38,700 --> 00:15:35,590 well which is fantastic we're 370 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:38,710 encouraging low older their audiences to 371 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:40,890 ask for evidence every claim Basie and 372 00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:45,250 of course one of the notable notable 373 00:15:50,940 --> 00:15:47,920 people you have supporting you is a very 374 00:15:53,610 --> 00:15:50,950 good and mutual friend of ours Simon 375 00:15:55,890 --> 00:15:53,620 Singh sliven yes sirens fantastic you 376 00:15:58,980 --> 00:15:55,900 know he's a science writer and 377 00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:58,990 broadcaster and sketchy and he's one 378 00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:00,880 member of our Board of Trustees actually 379 00:16:04,170 --> 00:16:02,110 so we work favorite socially would climb 380 00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:04,180 in and off loving and yeah he's 381 00:16:09,870 --> 00:16:06,880 fantastic he is indeed he's a good man 382 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:09,880 I've met him on several occasions here 383 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:12,310 in Australia where he actually spoke for 384 00:16:16,829 --> 00:16:14,650 us last year the amazing leading in 385 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:16,839 Australian was a pleasure Simon 386 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:19,330 something ok it and of course he's 387 00:16:22,620 --> 00:16:21,130 famous for something else which is very 388 00:16:24,050 --> 00:16:22,630 dear to the heart of sense about science 389 00:16:27,090 --> 00:16:24,060 which is the lie 390 00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:27,100 situation reliable news that's right 391 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:30,240 that's right he was sued for libel for 392 00:16:34,140 --> 00:16:32,410 asking for evidence I guess for the 393 00:16:36,060 --> 00:16:34,150 claims like Falcon chiropractors are 394 00:16:38,250 --> 00:16:36,070 making for being able to treat certain 395 00:16:41,510 --> 00:16:38,260 types of conditions he wrote a book 396 00:16:44,340 --> 00:16:41,520 called trick or treatment with 397 00:16:45,660 --> 00:16:44,350 restaurants and your roast some articles 398 00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:45,670 and newspapers at the time the launch of 399 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:47,920 the book about the evidence for a lot of 400 00:16:53,130 --> 00:16:49,090 different complementary and alternative 401 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:53,140 treatments and the body of chiropractors 402 00:16:57,270 --> 00:16:55,930 sued him for that suit for libel it 403 00:16:59,040 --> 00:16:57,280 didn't take up their newspapers offer 404 00:17:01,340 --> 00:16:59,050 over rights reply they didn't engage and 405 00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:01,350 open the base and scrutiny which is what 406 00:17:07,470 --> 00:17:04,990 scientists and all of us as citizens and 407 00:17:09,449 --> 00:17:07,480 voters should demand from public surveys 408 00:17:11,130 --> 00:17:09,459 face treatment they try to silence what 409 00:17:13,710 --> 00:17:11,140 he was saying we were opposed by that 410 00:17:15,569 --> 00:17:13,720 and we publicized his case and launched 411 00:17:18,180 --> 00:17:15,579 a campaign called keep libel laws as in 412 00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:18,190 science and we were absolutely astounded 413 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:21,310 by the number of scientists and authors 414 00:17:26,610 --> 00:17:24,250 and journalists just individuals who 415 00:17:29,010 --> 00:17:26,620 contacted us and told us I could have 416 00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:29,020 been that in the same situation I could 417 00:17:32,550 --> 00:17:30,160 be going through the courts someone 418 00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:32,560 threatened me with liable for something 419 00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:34,960 I put in my blog or in a scalable for 420 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:37,510 magazine never got published our paper I 421 00:17:41,370 --> 00:17:38,890 submitted to a peer-reviewed journal 422 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:41,380 didn't publish because of fears of libel 423 00:17:47,550 --> 00:17:43,930 threats so we realize that growing 424 00:17:49,860 --> 00:17:47,560 horror how widespread the silencing from 425 00:17:51,690 --> 00:17:49,870 legal threats was across the scientific 426 00:17:54,810 --> 00:17:51,700 and medical community and across society 427 00:17:57,810 --> 00:17:54,820 more widely as well so we campaigned 428 00:18:01,490 --> 00:17:57,820 very very hard to change the outdated 429 00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:01,500 and unfair why the laws of the UK 430 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:04,240 supertech public interest rate these 431 00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:05,650 kind of discussions about science and 432 00:18:09,180 --> 00:18:07,120 medicine and treatments and products and 433 00:18:12,780 --> 00:18:09,190 companies and organizations and people 434 00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:12,790 in power and the government listens to 435 00:18:18,540 --> 00:18:16,480 the support to our 55,000 supporters and 436 00:18:20,610 --> 00:18:18,550 again high-profile names who joined that 437 00:18:22,530 --> 00:18:20,620 campaign and published a draft 438 00:18:24,540 --> 00:18:22,540 legislation to reform the lie below us 439 00:18:26,340 --> 00:18:24,550 which at the moment is going through 440 00:18:28,020 --> 00:18:26,350 scrutiny and UK parlamento would be 441 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:28,030 debated in parliament over the next year 442 00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:30,370 so I hope they would be legislation by 443 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:34,510 may of 2012 so we're very very excited 444 00:18:37,710 --> 00:18:36,250 with that happening we're still very 445 00:18:40,170 --> 00:18:37,720 very busy on the libel reform 446 00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:40,180 campaign scrutinizing the guards 447 00:18:44,550 --> 00:18:41,740 government's legislation and making sure 448 00:18:46,620 --> 00:18:44,560 that parameter indignant these gears 449 00:18:48,930 --> 00:18:46,630 know that this is an issue that there is 450 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:48,940 enormous support behind from the 451 00:18:52,890 --> 00:18:51,130 scientific and sketch the community 452 00:18:55,170 --> 00:18:52,900 especially so we're we're still out 453 00:18:57,450 --> 00:18:55,180 there representing and campaigning for 454 00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:57,460 libel reform but it's some legislation 455 00:19:04,830 --> 00:19:01,200 plan for us it is an exciting time when 456 00:19:07,770 --> 00:19:04,840 you can see what good old fashioned 457 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:07,780 grassroots activism law can accomplish 458 00:19:13,140 --> 00:19:10,690 and I know it's frustrating for all of 459 00:19:14,190 --> 00:19:13,150 us much of the time especially when 460 00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:14,200 you're hitting your head against the 461 00:19:20,010 --> 00:19:18,160 wall dividing ridiculous laws or as you 462 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:20,020 say people tweet claims and they get 463 00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:22,090 away with all sorts of things so we're 464 00:19:27,660 --> 00:19:25,980 always you you and an iron and all our 465 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:27,670 colleagues around the world always 466 00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:30,490 chasing this sort of thing but i must 467 00:19:36,020 --> 00:19:33,910 say that you are having some good 468 00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:36,030 success which gives us all heart and 469 00:19:40,380 --> 00:19:38,110 another part of your website that 470 00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:40,390 interests me quite quite a lot is the 471 00:19:46,590 --> 00:19:44,110 voice of young science a little bit 472 00:19:48,890 --> 00:19:46,600 about that absolutely the voice of young 473 00:19:51,090 --> 00:19:48,900 science or voice majority network is a 474 00:19:53,550 --> 00:19:51,100 loose network it's not binding that 475 00:19:55,380 --> 00:19:53,560 formal but it's a group of couple 476 00:19:59,220 --> 00:19:55,390 hundred young scientists and researchers 477 00:20:00,360 --> 00:19:59,230 and junior doctors medics who want to 478 00:20:02,580 --> 00:20:00,370 get involved in this kind of evidence 479 00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:02,590 hunting as well as they came together 480 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:04,960 originally from participants in our 481 00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:07,570 standing up for science workshops which 482 00:20:12,030 --> 00:20:09,310 are kind of media workshops workshops 483 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:12,040 were encouraged and help these young 484 00:20:16,260 --> 00:20:14,290 researchers get involved in debates 485 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:16,270 about contentious issues and you've 486 00:20:20,010 --> 00:20:18,370 react when they see signs are evidence 487 00:20:21,930 --> 00:20:20,020 been misrepresented of the media are in 488 00:20:23,820 --> 00:20:21,940 private claims are by politicians 489 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:23,830 helping them with the tools to get out 490 00:20:26,580 --> 00:20:24,970 there and white letters to the 491 00:20:28,820 --> 00:20:26,590 newspapers rush the politicians get on 492 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:28,830 the radio that encouragement to do that 493 00:20:32,250 --> 00:20:31,210 after the workshops that the first 494 00:20:33,930 --> 00:20:32,260 couple of workshops that a couple 495 00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:33,940 hundred of these young scientists 496 00:20:38,250 --> 00:20:36,310 attended they wanted to stay in touch 497 00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:38,260 they wanted to band together and you 498 00:20:42,570 --> 00:20:40,510 know there's more power in numbers so 499 00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:42,580 they wanted to work together on their 500 00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:45,760 evidence hunting projects so they formed 501 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:46,960 this loose network all the voices of 502 00:20:51,690 --> 00:20:48,610 young science and they have done some 503 00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:51,700 amazing things just a you know the hand 504 00:20:54,690 --> 00:20:53,260 not that many more than a handful of 505 00:20:57,330 --> 00:20:54,700 Iran finders projectors are done some 506 00:20:59,460 --> 00:20:57,340 fantastic things like a couple of years 507 00:21:00,919 --> 00:20:59,470 ago I think two years ago they saw there 508 00:21:04,379 --> 00:21:00,929 was going to be a conference in 509 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:04,389 Amsterdam on Toby obviously in the 510 00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:08,010 developing world and they report that 511 00:21:11,490 --> 00:21:10,240 when they realize that homie opt-in 512 00:21:14,850 --> 00:21:11,500 unproven things like that were being 513 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:14,860 promoted all around Africa as cures and 514 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:16,690 treatments for things like infant 515 00:21:20,940 --> 00:21:18,970 diarrhea and malaria and HIV and AIDS 516 00:21:22,830 --> 00:21:20,950 there are absolutely poles that people 517 00:21:25,259 --> 00:21:22,840 were very vulnerable people and the 518 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:25,269 developing world's have been conned into 519 00:21:29,610 --> 00:21:27,130 using these on proven treatments and 520 00:21:31,740 --> 00:21:29,620 encouraged not to use conventional 521 00:21:34,110 --> 00:21:31,750 medicine at the same time they're 522 00:21:35,610 --> 00:21:34,120 absolutely pod when they look into a bit 523 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:35,620 further they were even more shocked to 524 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:37,450 find that bodies like the World Health 525 00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:39,370 Organisation weren't doing anything 526 00:21:42,930 --> 00:21:40,720 about this they weren't taking a stand 527 00:21:44,399 --> 00:21:42,940 they weren't doing much to help people 528 00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:44,409 on the ground in Africa who are trying 529 00:21:47,370 --> 00:21:45,760 to combat this we're trying to make 530 00:21:48,629 --> 00:21:47,380 sense of this for themselves and the 531 00:21:50,519 --> 00:21:48,639 medics down there who are trying to come 532 00:21:52,919 --> 00:21:50,529 back the only alternative treatments are 533 00:21:54,539 --> 00:21:52,929 being promoted people who weren't doing 534 00:21:57,149 --> 00:21:54,549 anything to help them so the young 535 00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:57,159 scientists working together wrote to the 536 00:22:00,690 --> 00:21:59,039 heads of all these different disease 537 00:22:03,629 --> 00:22:00,700 sections in the World Health 538 00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:03,639 Organization and got them all to condemn 539 00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:05,110 the promotion to formula thief or 540 00:22:08,370 --> 00:22:06,580 serious diseases the developing world 541 00:22:09,690 --> 00:22:08,380 for the first time they got the World 542 00:22:11,370 --> 00:22:09,700 Health Organization the biggest engine 543 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:11,380 laughs and to make very strong 544 00:22:14,669 --> 00:22:12,730 statements against it which was an 545 00:22:16,889 --> 00:22:14,679 absolutely amazing thing for you know 546 00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:16,899 once you young scientists to do so that 547 00:22:24,029 --> 00:22:19,809 was absolutely fantastic and we're very 548 00:22:25,529 --> 00:22:24,039 so proud they're just brilliant that is 549 00:22:28,139 --> 00:22:25,539 so encouraging that is so encouraging 550 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:28,149 and of course the young scientists will 551 00:22:33,180 --> 00:22:31,210 turn into slightly older scientists and 552 00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:33,190 throughout their career they will not 553 00:22:40,139 --> 00:22:36,000 I'm sure will not give up and will be 554 00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:40,149 continually fighting the nonsense and 555 00:22:44,909 --> 00:22:41,769 the quiet area that we see out there and 556 00:22:47,129 --> 00:22:44,919 what a fine cause is to to nip it in the 557 00:22:50,190 --> 00:22:47,139 bud hopefully as it were in in such 558 00:22:51,539 --> 00:22:50,200 places as Africa that's right that's 559 00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:51,549 right I mean what you said earlier is 560 00:22:54,899 --> 00:22:53,440 absolutely true there are lots of 561 00:22:57,180 --> 00:22:54,909 individuals like a thousand 562 00:22:58,889 --> 00:22:57,190 organizations and groups out there who 563 00:23:00,629 --> 00:22:58,899 could who could make it their life's 564 00:23:03,090 --> 00:23:00,639 work you know clacking down the 565 00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:03,100 activities of one individual or one 566 00:23:06,489 --> 00:23:05,110 company are reacting to one claim for 567 00:23:08,959 --> 00:23:06,499 the rest 568 00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:08,969 the things keep popping up again and 569 00:23:12,289 --> 00:23:11,039 again and again even despite the 570 00:23:13,969 --> 00:23:12,299 brilliant work that all these groups and 571 00:23:16,609 --> 00:23:13,979 people are doing I would think we just 572 00:23:18,709 --> 00:23:16,619 we can't rely on just the fairly small 573 00:23:21,169 --> 00:23:18,719 sector of society that includes us but 574 00:23:22,579 --> 00:23:21,179 is doing this just now we don't want to 575 00:23:25,999 --> 00:23:22,589 have to do it for the rest of our life 576 00:23:27,919 --> 00:23:26,009 and so you don't either so that's why we 577 00:23:29,869 --> 00:23:27,929 need that so many other people the 578 00:23:32,299 --> 00:23:29,879 people who aren't aware of your on my 579 00:23:34,909 --> 00:23:32,309 work and our work to hear about this and 580 00:23:37,789 --> 00:23:34,919 to start asking for evidence because you 581 00:23:39,589 --> 00:23:37,799 don't need to be a scientist to ask you 582 00:23:41,239 --> 00:23:39,599 know penetrating questions about 583 00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:41,249 evidence you don't have to be an 584 00:23:46,579 --> 00:23:43,440 epidemiologist to get to the bottom of 585 00:23:48,649 --> 00:23:46,589 games about mobile phones and cancer you 586 00:23:50,569 --> 00:23:48,659 can ask whether there's evidence 587 00:23:52,579 --> 00:23:50,579 virtually about that how conclusions 588 00:23:54,889 --> 00:23:52,589 have been reached what kind of tests 589 00:23:56,029 --> 00:23:54,899 have been done with a fair tests whether 590 00:23:56,899 --> 00:23:56,039 the results are peer-reviewed and 591 00:23:58,369 --> 00:23:56,909 published whether they've been 592 00:24:00,349 --> 00:23:58,379 replicated what other scientists are 593 00:24:02,509 --> 00:24:00,359 saying those kind of questions that 594 00:24:05,509 --> 00:24:02,519 people who don't naturally feed 595 00:24:07,310 --> 00:24:05,519 themselves scientists are skeptics can 596 00:24:09,859 --> 00:24:07,320 use and we know they really can use 597 00:24:12,019 --> 00:24:09,869 those kinds of insights that as I said 598 00:24:14,690 --> 00:24:12,029 that for example something is science 599 00:24:17,060 --> 00:24:14,700 when it's being scrutinized by other 600 00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:17,070 scientists and published in the journals 601 00:24:20,569 --> 00:24:18,329 then you know that it has been 602 00:24:22,519 --> 00:24:20,579 scrutinized and it's at least one step 603 00:24:24,049 --> 00:24:22,529 up from someone's opinion or some 604 00:24:24,979 --> 00:24:24,059 research so and a stone in the shed in 605 00:24:27,019 --> 00:24:24,989 the back of the garden are never 606 00:24:28,489 --> 00:24:27,029 published those kind of simple questions 607 00:24:29,930 --> 00:24:28,499 has it been peer-reviewed it's at least 608 00:24:33,169 --> 00:24:29,940 a first step of making sense of these 609 00:24:35,239 --> 00:24:33,179 claims and everybody can use that they 610 00:24:37,249 --> 00:24:35,249 can indeed and yours is the site that 611 00:24:39,229 --> 00:24:37,259 keeps giving because people can even 612 00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:39,239 click a button right near the top of 613 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:41,039 your site that says get scientific 614 00:24:47,209 --> 00:24:44,690 advice they can indeed we have a 615 00:24:49,489 --> 00:24:47,219 database of five thousands and more 616 00:24:51,469 --> 00:24:49,499 specialists from God every field you can 617 00:24:53,599 --> 00:24:51,479 think of from Nobel Prize laureates down 618 00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:53,609 to you know young researchers PhD 619 00:24:58,009 --> 00:24:55,679 students and postdocs in all the foods 620 00:25:00,919 --> 00:24:58,019 you can think of getting some of the top 621 00:25:03,139 --> 00:25:00,929 scientists in the UK and members of the 622 00:25:06,919 --> 00:25:03,149 most prestigious organizations over here 623 00:25:10,159 --> 00:25:06,929 who are willing to people I would simply 624 00:25:11,719 --> 00:25:10,169 pursue this anybody can phone us with a 625 00:25:13,969 --> 00:25:11,729 question and unexpended scientific or 626 00:25:15,289 --> 00:25:13,979 medical topic and we do our very best to 627 00:25:17,509 --> 00:25:15,299 help them out to get them the answer 628 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:17,519 working with our database whether you 629 00:25:21,890 --> 00:25:19,530 know huge invisible support behind us 630 00:25:24,020 --> 00:25:21,900 we there are very best answer 631 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:24,030 everybody's questions what a fantastic 632 00:25:29,660 --> 00:25:26,570 service you have what a fantastic 633 00:25:32,090 --> 00:25:29,670 opportunity for our listeners to take 634 00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:32,100 advantage of this and the website is of 635 00:25:39,740 --> 00:25:36,000 course sense about science one word dot 636 00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:39,750 o RG dr. sheila lane congratulations 637 00:25:44,060 --> 00:25:41,760 again on a wonderful site which is put 638 00:25:46,610 --> 00:25:44,070 together very well indeed but more 639 00:25:48,740 --> 00:25:46,620 importantly what's behind that site the 640 00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:48,750 science and the the willingness to help 641 00:25:55,370 --> 00:25:53,400 to outreach I think really puts that 642 00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:55,380 site above many I've seen so 643 00:26:00,710 --> 00:25:58,080 congratulations very much and all 644 00:26:01,910 --> 00:26:00,720 success to you thank you thank you so 645 00:26:11,630 --> 00:26:01,920 much it's been really lovely talking to 646 00:26:13,310 --> 00:26:11,640 you thank you hey bro oh hey what's up 647 00:26:14,750 --> 00:26:13,320 check it out finally a Back to the 648 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:14,760 Future invention that is coming to 649 00:26:21,530 --> 00:26:18,050 existence i present to you mahavir ball 650 00:26:24,410 --> 00:26:21,540 dude that's a BS band skateboard deck 651 00:26:26,930 --> 00:26:24,420 from ashy skateboard yes escape on 652 00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:26,940 without wheel yeah you're supposed to 653 00:26:31,220 --> 00:26:29,130 buy your own wheels and bolt the law and 654 00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:31,230 look it has a placebo been right here in 655 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:33,600 the packaging that must be what powers 656 00:26:37,850 --> 00:26:35,490 it what are you on about that's right 657 00:26:40,010 --> 00:26:37,860 your very own hoverboard and skeptic 658 00:26:41,870 --> 00:26:40,020 browser com has one to give away dude a 659 00:26:43,580 --> 00:26:41,880 skeptic bros calm and click on the comp 660 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:43,590 tab for more detail oh no that's a 661 00:26:48,650 --> 00:26:45,930 skateboard deck right not a hoverboard 662 00:26:50,660 --> 00:26:48,660 it doesn't actually fly you could get 663 00:26:52,220 --> 00:26:50,670 the car I'll get my Michael J on hold on 664 00:26:58,749 --> 00:26:52,230 to the bumper and float down the freeway 665 00:27:04,899 --> 00:27:02,019 here it is Australian skeptics committee 666 00:27:07,619 --> 00:27:04,909 member Peter Bowditch talking about his 667 00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:07,629 efforts to be heard on various 668 00:27:28,109 --> 00:27:11,809 anti-vaccination forums and remember you 669 00:27:31,749 --> 00:27:30,039 emerald or e of the Australian 670 00:27:33,669 --> 00:27:31,759 vaccination network has a long history 671 00:27:35,349 --> 00:27:33,679 of intolerance towards anybody who 672 00:27:38,109 --> 00:27:35,359 disagrees with her in forums that she 673 00:27:39,699 --> 00:27:38,119 controls I've been banned from the 674 00:27:42,099 --> 00:27:39,709 avians internet mailing list it's not a 675 00:27:44,049 --> 00:27:42,109 99 despite never posted anything to the 676 00:27:46,269 --> 00:27:44,059 list I joined because I've been told 677 00:27:47,739 --> 00:27:46,279 that I was being defined there more 678 00:27:49,659 --> 00:27:47,749 recently miss Dorry has blocked me from 679 00:27:51,129 --> 00:27:49,669 following her on twitter blocked me and 680 00:27:53,259 --> 00:27:51,139 many other people from commenting on the 681 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:53,269 avians facebook page and refused to 682 00:27:58,389 --> 00:27:55,129 publish to sending comments on to blogs 683 00:27:59,949 --> 00:27:58,399 that she runs to the avn ms Doria stayed 684 00:28:01,449 --> 00:27:59,959 on several occasions that she welcomes 685 00:28:04,089 --> 00:28:01,459 debate and discussion as long as it is 686 00:28:06,219 --> 00:28:04,099 polite polite this is why always refer 687 00:28:08,469 --> 00:28:06,229 them as dory isn't her story resist the 688 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:08,479 use of terms such as total slime and 689 00:28:11,769 --> 00:28:10,129 expression to you to describe me at one 690 00:28:14,499 --> 00:28:11,779 time in a forum when I had no right of 691 00:28:17,049 --> 00:28:14,509 reply she has now created yet another 692 00:28:20,259 --> 00:28:17,059 forum miss Tomic google groups with the 693 00:28:22,209 --> 00:28:20,269 title vaccinations respectful debate the 694 00:28:24,099 --> 00:28:22,219 description of this group says this is a 695 00:28:26,019 --> 00:28:24,109 place for people from both sides of this 696 00:28:27,969 --> 00:28:26,029 very polarized vaccination debate to 697 00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:27,979 meet and discuss the issues concerning 698 00:28:33,159 --> 00:28:30,529 vaccine safety efficacy and necessity 699 00:28:35,979 --> 00:28:33,169 all viewpoints are welcome provided they 700 00:28:38,349 --> 00:28:35,989 are respectful it then goes on to say at 701 00:28:40,629 --> 00:28:38,359 the first sign of abuse name-calling etc 702 00:28:42,009 --> 00:28:40,639 you will be banned so perhaps this might 703 00:28:43,779 --> 00:28:42,019 be somewhere where I can appear without 704 00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:43,789 being called names or accused to burn 705 00:28:47,409 --> 00:28:46,159 yourself a big farmer perhaps to the 706 00:28:51,009 --> 00:28:47,419 place where i can get banned very 707 00:28:52,419 --> 00:28:51,019 quickly I decided to again test ms 708 00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:52,429 dorries commitment to free and open 709 00:28:57,099 --> 00:28:55,279 speech so I joined the list I didn't 710 00:28:59,199 --> 00:28:57,109 post for a few days so I'm mr. kudos 711 00:29:00,879 --> 00:28:59,209 having the first personally band that 712 00:29:02,709 --> 00:29:00,889 went to my friend Peter teeny who dared 713 00:29:05,499 --> 00:29:02,719 to question their warnings that were 714 00:29:07,209 --> 00:29:05,509 given to some people I finally made my 715 00:29:08,769 --> 00:29:07,219 first post and somewhat to my surprise 716 00:29:10,899 --> 00:29:08,779 it managed to make it past the 717 00:29:11,950 --> 00:29:10,909 moderators aren't named but there are 718 00:29:14,350 --> 00:29:11,960 two of them and they're not 719 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:14,360 provac teen camp here is what I had to 720 00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:18,050 say hello all my name is Peter Budaj I 721 00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:19,910 have a long term interest in the Backson 722 00:29:23,530 --> 00:29:21,950 ocean debate now welcome the chance to 723 00:29:24,790 --> 00:29:23,540 participate in a forum where the 724 00:29:27,370 --> 00:29:24,800 evidence for both sides can be 725 00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:27,380 respectfully presented while I believe 726 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:29,120 that a case can be made for compulsory 727 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:30,530 vaccination for people in certain 728 00:29:35,170 --> 00:29:32,450 occupations healthcare being the obvious 729 00:29:36,690 --> 00:29:35,180 example I support the idea for most 730 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:36,700 people it should be an informed choice 731 00:29:42,430 --> 00:29:39,290 the critical word is informed and that 732 00:29:44,110 --> 00:29:42,440 is where people have to be careful there 733 00:29:45,910 --> 00:29:44,120 is a vast amount of information about 734 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:45,920 the safety effectiveness and possible 735 00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:49,010 side effects of accidents available some 736 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:50,510 is based on science such as the 737 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:51,890 information freely available from the 738 00:29:55,420 --> 00:29:53,810 websites of immunized australia the 739 00:29:57,820 --> 00:29:55,430 tenets for Disease Control and the World 740 00:29:58,900 --> 00:29:57,830 Health Organization for example and for 741 00:30:00,850 --> 00:29:58,910 those of not afraid of reading 742 00:30:04,450 --> 00:30:00,860 scientific papers the National Institute 743 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:04,460 of Health spud med database some of the 744 00:30:07,690 --> 00:30:05,890 information is based on emotion 745 00:30:09,550 --> 00:30:07,700 misinterpretation of misunderstanding of 746 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:09,560 the science or simply an inability to 747 00:30:14,530 --> 00:30:12,770 distinguish good science and bad some of 748 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:14,540 it is based on GBA science and even the 749 00:30:17,890 --> 00:30:16,010 occasional piece of fraudulent research 750 00:30:19,900 --> 00:30:17,900 such the discredited and now withdrawn 751 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:19,910 1998 paper in The Lancet by Andrew 752 00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:22,610 Wakefield some of it is so out of touch 753 00:30:27,490 --> 00:30:24,320 with reality that could be material for 754 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:27,500 researching of mental illness what 755 00:30:30,610 --> 00:30:29,090 concerns me most however is the 756 00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:30,620 information which keeps getting repeated 757 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:32,240 even though it's relatively simple a 758 00:30:36,370 --> 00:30:34,970 demonstrator that is false the fact that 759 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:36,380 some of this gets repeated by people who 760 00:30:39,910 --> 00:30:37,970 have been told sometimes on several 761 00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:39,920 occasions that it is false and have been 762 00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:41,510 offered the refuting evidence suggests 763 00:30:45,130 --> 00:30:42,950 that they are I simply working to a 764 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:45,140 needy vaccine agenda and truth does not 765 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:46,850 matter them because the end justifies 766 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:49,610 the means here are just five of these 767 00:30:55,180 --> 00:30:52,930 continually repeated untruths number one 768 00:30:58,150 --> 00:30:55,190 vaccines contain parts of aborted 769 00:31:00,220 --> 00:30:58,160 fetuses it is true that in the 770 00:31:01,870 --> 00:31:00,230 manufacture of some vaccines a cell line 771 00:31:05,230 --> 00:31:01,880 is used which was derived in the lung 772 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:05,240 cells while fetus aborted not in 62 it 773 00:31:08,770 --> 00:31:07,010 was a legal termination undertaken to 774 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:08,780 save the mother's life and the mother 775 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:12,170 donated the fetus to science attempts 776 00:31:15,070 --> 00:31:13,490 have been made to claim that Catholics 777 00:31:18,340 --> 00:31:15,080 for example should therefore refuse to 778 00:31:20,290 --> 00:31:18,350 use these vaccines in 2003 the Vatican 779 00:31:22,060 --> 00:31:20,300 issued a ruling on this matter making it 780 00:31:23,620 --> 00:31:22,070 perfectly acceptable for Catholics use 781 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:23,630 these vaccines on the basis that they 782 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:25,490 had an overriding responsibility for the 783 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:25,730 hell 784 00:31:30,460 --> 00:31:27,890 their own children and for those that 785 00:31:34,330 --> 00:31:30,470 they came in contact with not just their 786 00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:34,340 own children number two polio was not 787 00:31:39,730 --> 00:31:35,840 reduced by the introduction of vaccines 788 00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:39,740 but has simply been renamed the obvious 789 00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:41,360 absurdity of this is apparent of anybody 790 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:43,910 who lived through the early 1950s if 791 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:45,410 Polly are still present than where are 792 00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:46,970 the calipers on children's leagues and 793 00:31:51,610 --> 00:31:50,000 where are the iron lungs when I asked a 794 00:31:53,380 --> 00:31:51,620 prominent anti-vaccine campaigner for 795 00:31:54,970 --> 00:31:53,390 evidence of this I was pointed to a 796 00:31:58,270 --> 00:31:54,980 reclassification of statistical 797 00:32:00,100 --> 00:31:58,280 categories in 1956 with the CDC ruled 798 00:32:02,110 --> 00:32:00,110 that paralysis had the last to 60 days 799 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:02,120 for a case to be recorded as paralytic 800 00:32:07,390 --> 00:32:05,210 polio it was not a renaming of anything 801 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:07,400 if it's a refining of the way cases were 802 00:32:12,130 --> 00:32:10,850 reported yes palio still exists lo not 803 00:32:15,070 --> 00:32:12,140 in places like Australia which have 804 00:32:16,810 --> 00:32:15,080 comprehensive vaccination programs the 805 00:32:17,890 --> 00:32:16,820 main barrier worldwide eradication 806 00:32:22,180 --> 00:32:17,900 seemed to be nonsense spread by 807 00:32:23,410 --> 00:32:22,190 religious fanatics number three vaccines 808 00:32:26,980 --> 00:32:23,420 have never been tested in clinical 809 00:32:28,930 --> 00:32:26,990 trials the largest clinical trial 810 00:32:30,820 --> 00:32:28,940 history of Medicine in terms of numbers 811 00:32:33,910 --> 00:32:30,830 of test subjects was the trial of the 812 00:32:36,670 --> 00:32:33,920 sort polio vaccine with about 500,000 813 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:36,680 subjects clinical trials for gardasil 814 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:38,450 and rotor tech both included more than 815 00:32:45,250 --> 00:32:41,450 30,000 test subjects the time of writing 816 00:32:47,230 --> 00:32:45,260 this pubmed returns 19,000 352 papers 817 00:32:51,930 --> 00:32:47,240 for the keyword search vaccine clinical 818 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:51,940 trials and 9680 one for vaccine safety 819 00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:54,170 calls are sometimes made the placebo 820 00:32:57,310 --> 00:32:55,760 controlled trials and vaccines but there 821 00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:57,320 are significant ethical problems with 822 00:33:01,870 --> 00:32:59,120 deliberately exposing subjects to deadly 823 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:01,880 or disabling diseases the extreme cases 824 00:33:06,250 --> 00:33:03,530 a fear mongering the lack of crossover 825 00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:06,260 trousers pointed out as a crossover 826 00:33:09,580 --> 00:33:07,760 trial would require subjects to have 827 00:33:11,380 --> 00:33:09,590 their vaccination status removed part 828 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:11,390 way through the trial it's obviously 829 00:33:15,100 --> 00:33:13,090 impossible to do this sort of test 830 00:33:16,810 --> 00:33:15,110 people requesting it either do not 831 00:33:19,210 --> 00:33:16,820 understand how scientific research works 832 00:33:21,870 --> 00:33:19,220 or deliberately regarding situation 833 00:33:24,580 --> 00:33:21,880 where they can say this hasn't been done 834 00:33:27,580 --> 00:33:24,590 number four vaccines are injected into 835 00:33:30,250 --> 00:33:27,590 the bloodstream nothing more about this 836 00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:30,260 than no they are not if someone tells 837 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:31,310 you this June you should immediately 838 00:33:34,750 --> 00:33:33,410 correct them if they persist then you 839 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:34,760 know that they don't you don't have to 840 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:35,930 listen to anything more that they have 841 00:33:40,090 --> 00:33:37,970 to say 842 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:40,100 no disease has ever been wiped out by 843 00:33:45,610 --> 00:33:43,610 vaccination smallpox rinderpest in 844 00:33:48,010 --> 00:33:45,620 cattle with measles and polio on the 845 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:48,020 horizon the horizon gets pushed away at 846 00:33:51,670 --> 00:33:49,370 times by other opposition of 847 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:51,680 vaccinations or nonsensical minimization 848 00:33:56,770 --> 00:33:55,370 of the harm these diseases do I look 849 00:33:58,090 --> 00:33:56,780 forward to a rational respectful 850 00:33:59,620 --> 00:33:58,100 discussion about the considerable 851 00:34:01,270 --> 00:33:59,630 advantages and the small risks of 852 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:01,280 vaccines and I hope we can avoid 853 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:02,570 nonsense like the things I have 854 00:34:06,430 --> 00:34:05,090 mentioned above nobody ever said that 855 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:06,440 vaccines are one hundred percent safe 856 00:34:10,630 --> 00:34:09,170 because nothing is anybody who says that 857 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:10,640 vaccine to one hundred percent unsafe is 858 00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:12,650 wrong because the billions of vaccinated 859 00:34:16,180 --> 00:34:14,000 people with no effective evidence 860 00:34:17,980 --> 00:34:16,190 against the claim there are risks 861 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:17,990 associated with vaccines but those was 862 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:38,420 I am audit my existing or even tip said 863 00:34:42,110 --> 00:34:39,810 I some lotion lifted off the skeptic 864 00:34:44,270 --> 00:34:42,120 zone I'm skeptical marine Nadia the vins 865 00:34:46,130 --> 00:34:44,280 not a blog gear or pub def a podcast of 866 00:34:48,290 --> 00:34:46,140 reading escape system is leaked on this 867 00:34:50,150 --> 00:34:48,300 door open ah central data skips astotel 868 00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:50,160 new or higher publicize the deeps corner 869 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:52,260 Chiclets and calendar / activator or 870 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:53,970 link eternity research it escapes his 871 00:34:56,780 --> 00:34:55,410 blog in opportunity I'm lay autodesk 872 00:34:58,850 --> 00:34:56,790 ateres hefty tip of food oh man so 873 00:35:10,460 --> 00:34:58,860 sticky lon 0 Delta do Lhasa escapes in 874 00:35:16,330 --> 00:35:10,470 stocks hello now it's time for dr. 875 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:18,680 hello listeners I'm coming to you from 876 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:20,610 melbourne today where it is pouring with 877 00:35:25,310 --> 00:35:23,370 rain at is the AFL Grand Final which is 878 00:35:27,530 --> 00:35:25,320 the Australian Football League grand 879 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:27,540 final now obviously I'm not watching it 880 00:35:31,340 --> 00:35:29,130 because I'm recording this segment for 881 00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:31,350 you so welcome to a dr. Reggie reports 882 00:35:35,660 --> 00:35:33,600 this week I tell you a tale about 883 00:35:39,350 --> 00:35:35,670 pharmacists Blackmore's and would you 884 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:39,360 like to supersize your statins the story 885 00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:41,130 begins that pharmacists are amongst the 886 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:42,960 most trusted professions in Australia 887 00:35:47,420 --> 00:35:45,090 regularly coming in the top 10 of the 888 00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:47,430 annual Reader's Digest survey alongside 889 00:35:52,190 --> 00:35:49,920 paramedics fire fighters pilots and 890 00:35:54,050 --> 00:35:52,200 assaulted medical professionals which 891 00:35:55,970 --> 00:35:54,060 makes me even all the more frustrated to 892 00:35:58,640 --> 00:35:55,980 hear about a new partnership between the 893 00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,650 pharmacy Guild of Australia now this is 894 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:00,000 the body which represents about 895 00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:02,850 ninety-four percent of Australia's 5200 896 00:36:07,490 --> 00:36:05,520 pharmacies and Blackmore's Australia's 897 00:36:10,940 --> 00:36:07,500 largest manufacturer of supplements 898 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:10,950 vitamins and cam now the partnership 899 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:13,290 aims to upsell supplements to customers 900 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:15,450 when getting a prescription filled so 901 00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:16,530 basically when you go to get your 902 00:36:20,540 --> 00:36:18,510 prescription filled for say statins or 903 00:36:22,070 --> 00:36:20,550 antibiotics the pharmacist will be 904 00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:22,080 prompted to offer you a matching 905 00:36:27,890 --> 00:36:25,440 companion product from Blackmore's so 906 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:27,900 according to an article in fairfax under 907 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:29,490 the arrangement when a prescription is 908 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:31,530 filled a prompt in the pharmacist 909 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:33,690 computer will remind them to discuss a 910 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:35,490 particular Blackmore's product with the 911 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:38,250 patient patients will also receive a 912 00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:40,770 personalized professional leaflet giving 913 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:42,720 information on why this companion drug 914 00:36:46,190 --> 00:36:44,850 is appropriate this game has been 915 00:36:46,820 --> 00:36:46,200 endorsed by the pharmacy Guild of 916 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:46,830 Australia 917 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:48,810 and will be available in pharmacies from 918 00:36:53,090 --> 00:36:51,330 October as an aside I came across an 919 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:53,100 article yesterday that said Commonwealth 920 00:36:59,810 --> 00:36:55,650 Bank analysts also supported this scheme 921 00:37:01,520 --> 00:36:59,820 I wonder why that is so Christine 922 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:01,530 holgate who's the CEO and managing 923 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:03,810 director of Blackmore's told pharmacy 924 00:37:07,850 --> 00:37:05,370 news and this is what's caused or the 925 00:37:09,740 --> 00:37:07,860 few roar that the range gave Blackmore's 926 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:09,750 the opportunity to provide the coke and 927 00:37:14,420 --> 00:37:11,970 fries for these pharmaceutical medicines 928 00:37:16,340 --> 00:37:14,430 whilst also providing a new and 929 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:16,350 important revenue stream for community 930 00:37:20,090 --> 00:37:18,330 pharmacy the scheme has been thoroughly 931 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:20,100 condemned by pharmacists across 932 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:21,690 Australia and they're particularly 933 00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:23,490 offended by the use of this term coke 934 00:37:28,670 --> 00:37:26,160 and fries their assertion is that this 935 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:28,680 infers that their professionalism their 936 00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:30,210 trust amongst the community and their 937 00:37:34,970 --> 00:37:32,160 qualifications are pretty much up for 938 00:37:38,180 --> 00:37:34,980 sale and are worth no more than upsizing 939 00:37:40,190 --> 00:37:38,190 your prescription with coke and fries so 940 00:37:41,930 --> 00:37:40,200 the pharmacy guild who's behind the 941 00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:41,940 scheme has denied that it is 942 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:44,640 commercially motivated but the president 943 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:46,890 told pharmacy news that the deal 944 00:37:52,730 --> 00:37:49,890 represented quote a huge opportunity for 945 00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:52,740 the male market since males don't like 946 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:54,480 whistling doctors and pharmacist is 947 00:37:58,610 --> 00:37:56,010 someone that they don't mind seeing 948 00:38:00,410 --> 00:37:58,620 whether he cares to admit it or not it 949 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:00,420 doesn't take a genius to figure out this 950 00:38:04,490 --> 00:38:02,130 scheme is potentially very lucrative 951 00:38:07,130 --> 00:38:04,500 hence the Commonwealth Bank analyst 952 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:07,140 thinking it's a good idea particularly 953 00:38:10,250 --> 00:38:08,610 when the new line of supplements are 954 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:10,260 designed to be paired with prescriptions 955 00:38:14,930 --> 00:38:12,410 for statins antibiotics 956 00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:14,940 antihypertensives and proton pump 957 00:38:18,980 --> 00:38:16,320 inhibitors for gastrointestinal 958 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:18,990 disorders and all of these are very 959 00:38:24,380 --> 00:38:21,690 popular pharmaceuticals which constitute 960 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:24,390 more than a third of the 184 million 961 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:26,490 scripts dispensed in Australia every 962 00:38:31,070 --> 00:38:29,010 year now this whole business about it 963 00:38:33,230 --> 00:38:31,080 being lucrative seems odd given that the 964 00:38:35,900 --> 00:38:33,240 pharmacy guild were more concerned about 965 00:38:39,020 --> 00:38:35,910 quote patients and health outcomes than 966 00:38:40,670 --> 00:38:39,030 profit at least they were in 2009 when 967 00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:40,680 they were fighting a proposal for big 968 00:38:46,460 --> 00:38:43,200 supermarket to include pharmacies within 969 00:38:48,260 --> 00:38:46,470 their operations now at the time the 970 00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:48,270 guild argued that super markers are 971 00:38:53,630 --> 00:38:50,310 legally obligated to put shareholders 972 00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:53,640 and profits first whereas pharmacists 973 00:38:58,130 --> 00:38:55,680 care about patients and health outcomes 974 00:39:00,110 --> 00:38:58,140 whilst I wouldn't argue that pharmacists 975 00:39:00,770 --> 00:39:00,120 care about their patients but the guild 976 00:39:03,110 --> 00:39:00,780 not putting 977 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:03,120 its first if it's not for the money then 978 00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:05,370 please explain homeopathy ear candles 979 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:07,920 neuropathy and iridology consults with 980 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:11,010 in pharmacies so let's consider for a 981 00:39:14,810 --> 00:39:12,930 moment that the guild does have the best 982 00:39:16,610 --> 00:39:14,820 interests of patient at heart and that 983 00:39:19,970 --> 00:39:16,620 there is good evidence to support a 984 00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:19,980 fifteen dollar bottle of coenzyme q with 985 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:23,520 your statins so here is some of the 986 00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:25,530 evidence or lack thereof for these 987 00:39:30,380 --> 00:39:26,880 products working with these 988 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:30,390 prescriptions the biotic companion which 989 00:39:34,370 --> 00:39:32,250 is designed to be given with antibiotics 990 00:39:37,390 --> 00:39:34,380 contains the probiotic lactobacillus 991 00:39:39,230 --> 00:39:37,400 reuteri and it's designed to reduce 992 00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:39,240 antibiotic-associated bloating 993 00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:42,240 flatulence and diarrhea now while there 994 00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:44,250 is some evidence that certain probiotics 995 00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:45,680 may reduce the incidence of 996 00:39:50,870 --> 00:39:48,000 antibiotic-associated diarrhea in some 997 00:39:52,910 --> 00:39:50,880 populations their routine use is not 998 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:52,920 recommended by medical authorities and 999 00:39:58,130 --> 00:39:55,050 in immune compromised patients 1000 00:40:01,460 --> 00:39:58,140 occasional cases of probiotic associated 1001 00:40:03,730 --> 00:40:01,470 bacteremia have occurred the anti HT 1002 00:40:06,110 --> 00:40:03,740 companion is designed to be given with 1003 00:40:08,540 --> 00:40:06,120 antihypertensives and contains zinc 1004 00:40:10,460 --> 00:40:08,550 gluconate while there are occasional 1005 00:40:12,860 --> 00:40:10,470 reports that antihypertensive therapies 1006 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:12,870 may lower zinc levels I'm unaware of any 1007 00:40:17,060 --> 00:40:14,970 independent medical authority that 1008 00:40:20,060 --> 00:40:17,070 recommends routine zinc supplementation 1009 00:40:21,710 --> 00:40:20,070 with antihypertensive therapy the stat 1010 00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:21,720 companion is obviously designed to go 1011 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:24,720 with statins and contains coenzyme Q and 1012 00:40:30,410 --> 00:40:28,170 vitamin d3 there is variable evidence 1013 00:40:32,570 --> 00:40:30,420 that coenzyme Q and or vitamin D is 1014 00:40:35,180 --> 00:40:32,580 useful in treating statin associated 1015 00:40:37,550 --> 00:40:35,190 myopathy and this is actually rare and 1016 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:37,560 usually only occurs in patients taking 1017 00:40:43,730 --> 00:40:40,650 high doses of statins so the routine use 1018 00:40:45,950 --> 00:40:43,740 of coenzyme q10 and vitamin D in Staten 1019 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:45,960 treated patients is not recommended by 1020 00:40:50,090 --> 00:40:48,210 the medical community so the PPI 1021 00:40:51,980 --> 00:40:50,100 companion is designed to be used with 1022 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:51,990 proton pump inhibitors and contains 1023 00:40:56,540 --> 00:40:54,930 magnesium and while there are occasional 1024 00:40:58,580 --> 00:40:56,550 reports of clinically significant 1025 00:41:01,160 --> 00:40:58,590 magnesium deficiency occurring in 1026 00:41:03,830 --> 00:41:01,170 patients receiving long-term ppi therapy 1027 00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:03,840 the remedy is usually to stop the PPI 1028 00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:06,000 not routine supplement them with 1029 00:41:10,700 --> 00:41:08,640 magnesium so in the fine print of the 1030 00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:10,710 material provided by Blackmore's there's 1031 00:41:14,180 --> 00:41:12,240 a statement that if a nutritional 1032 00:41:15,740 --> 00:41:14,190 deficiency is suspected 1033 00:41:18,590 --> 00:41:15,750 pharmacist should refer customers to 1034 00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:18,600 their GPS for further investigations but 1035 00:41:21,860 --> 00:41:20,160 it's likely that pharmacists already do 1036 00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:21,870 this anyway since it's part of their 1037 00:41:26,510 --> 00:41:24,240 role as primary healthcare professionals 1038 00:41:28,910 --> 00:41:26,520 to discuss the possibility of serious 1039 00:41:31,250 --> 00:41:28,920 medication related adverse events with 1040 00:41:33,710 --> 00:41:31,260 their customers and refer them back to 1041 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:33,720 their GP for appropriate investigation 1042 00:41:37,820 --> 00:41:35,970 where necessary so what should not be a 1043 00:41:40,310 --> 00:41:37,830 part of the role as trusted health 1044 00:41:42,980 --> 00:41:40,320 professionals is pharmacist dishing out 1045 00:41:45,290 --> 00:41:42,990 companion supplements as the fries and 1046 00:41:47,150 --> 00:41:45,300 coke of prescriptions in order to give 1047 00:41:50,570 --> 00:41:47,160 pharmacies a new and important revenue 1048 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:50,580 stream this practice first of all lacks 1049 00:41:55,940 --> 00:41:52,890 an evidence base secondly it's unethical 1050 00:41:58,040 --> 00:41:55,950 and thirdly it unnecessarily adds to the 1051 00:42:00,410 --> 00:41:58,050 medication burden including the 1052 00:42:03,380 --> 00:42:00,420 financial costs that many elderly 1053 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:03,390 patients already struggle with now the 1054 00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:05,130 response so far from the pharmacy 1055 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:06,960 community of Australia has been harsh 1056 00:42:12,110 --> 00:42:09,570 they are totally offended and insulted 1057 00:42:14,180 --> 00:42:12,120 by this scheme and many are calling for 1058 00:42:16,190 --> 00:42:14,190 a total boycott of Blackmore's products 1059 00:42:18,530 --> 00:42:16,200 there have also been calls from 1060 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:18,540 pharmacists to have the CEO of 1061 00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:21,090 Blackmore's fired for this insensitive 1062 00:42:25,220 --> 00:42:23,280 and inappropriate comment that the 1063 00:42:28,430 --> 00:42:25,230 supplements can be sold like coke and 1064 00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:28,440 fries now the response so far from 1065 00:42:32,090 --> 00:42:29,910 Marcus Blackmore who's the head of 1066 00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:32,100 Blackmore's has been that they do have 1067 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:34,020 evidence to support the use of these 1068 00:42:38,990 --> 00:42:35,970 companion products with these particular 1069 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:39,000 prescriptions but as yet that evidence 1070 00:42:43,340 --> 00:42:41,850 has not been seen by anybody certainly 1071 00:42:45,710 --> 00:42:43,350 what I just told you in this brief 1072 00:42:48,500 --> 00:42:45,720 report does not support the routine use 1073 00:42:50,510 --> 00:42:48,510 of these companion supplements if you 1074 00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:50,520 want to read about this I wrote an 1075 00:42:54,590 --> 00:42:52,800 article in collaboration with dr. ken 1076 00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:54,600 harvey which was published on the 1077 00:43:00,080 --> 00:42:56,720 conversation website at the conversation 1078 00:43:01,910 --> 00:43:00,090 edu a you my name does not appear in the 1079 00:43:04,220 --> 00:43:01,920 article because my workplace has 1080 00:43:06,620 --> 00:43:04,230 dealings with Blackmore's I also wrote a 1081 00:43:08,420 --> 00:43:06,630 blog about this at the skeptics book com 1082 00:43:10,310 --> 00:43:08,430 and there's lots of discussion and has 1083 00:43:11,930 --> 00:43:10,320 been lots of comments from pharmacists 1084 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:11,940 so if you're interested in reading more 1085 00:43:16,670 --> 00:43:14,970 head to skeptics book calm and until 1086 00:43:20,810 --> 00:43:16,680 next time this has been dr. Richie 1087 00:43:26,370 --> 00:43:23,490 now we bring you the Today Tonight 1088 00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:26,380 report by our good friend reporter Frank 1089 00:43:37,530 --> 00:43:29,440 pang gelo all about ear candles which 1090 00:43:39,630 --> 00:43:37,540 you hear dr. hu now parking a burning 1091 00:43:41,610 --> 00:43:39,640 stick into your ear doesn't sound like a 1092 00:43:43,710 --> 00:43:41,620 great idea yet there are some natural 1093 00:43:45,810 --> 00:43:43,720 therapists promoting this way he 1094 00:43:48,090 --> 00:43:45,820 practice using ear candles for health 1095 00:43:50,130 --> 00:43:48,100 and well-being alarmed medical 1096 00:43:51,930 --> 00:43:50,140 professionals say it's dangerous yet as 1097 00:43:54,090 --> 00:43:51,940 Frank Bangalow reports these quack 1098 00:43:56,610 --> 00:43:54,100 remedies are still being sold by 1099 00:44:04,229 --> 00:43:56,620 chemists who should know better than to 1100 00:44:09,209 --> 00:44:07,319 an ear candle is made up of cotton or 1101 00:44:11,189 --> 00:44:09,219 linen and that's coached in paraffin or 1102 00:44:13,799 --> 00:44:11,199 wax and then it's rolled up when it's 1103 00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:13,809 warm allowed to harden and then put it 1104 00:44:18,209 --> 00:44:15,609 into your ear and you burn the far end 1105 00:44:21,419 --> 00:44:18,219 of it as far as health treatments go 1106 00:44:23,969 --> 00:44:21,429 this one is quite bizarre some Native 1107 00:44:26,969 --> 00:44:23,979 Americans use it as a form of ritual 1108 00:44:30,629 --> 00:44:26,979 there's a wonderful way to get rid of 1109 00:44:33,809 --> 00:44:30,639 the excess wax and to help with sinus 1110 00:44:37,709 --> 00:44:33,819 pressure or TMJ syndrome or migraine 1111 00:44:41,069 --> 00:44:37,719 headaches I think they work they don't 1112 00:44:42,809 --> 00:44:41,079 hurt you do feel a bit silly lying there 1113 00:44:44,609 --> 00:44:42,819 with a big candle stuck out of your ear 1114 00:44:48,089 --> 00:44:44,619 but definitely feels a lot clearer 1115 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:48,099 afterwards Ellie chambers swears by ear 1116 00:44:54,659 --> 00:44:51,249 candles she regularly uses them to help 1117 00:44:56,129 --> 00:44:54,669 unclog her ear canals of wax definitely 1118 00:44:58,679 --> 00:44:56,139 better than cotton bugs you're not 1119 00:45:02,039 --> 00:44:58,689 poking and prodding around your ear and 1120 00:45:04,289 --> 00:45:02,049 it gets a lot more wax out there's no 1121 00:45:07,139 --> 00:45:04,299 evidence in all of science to show that 1122 00:45:09,269 --> 00:45:07,149 ear candles work but dr. Rachel Dunlop 1123 00:45:12,089 --> 00:45:09,279 from the Australian skeptics warns that 1124 00:45:15,359 --> 00:45:12,099 ear candling is not only medically 1125 00:45:18,059 --> 00:45:15,369 unproven it's also dangerous this was 1126 00:45:19,949 --> 00:45:18,069 shown in a study done in 1996 where 1127 00:45:22,289 --> 00:45:19,959 patients were coming to see Ian nose and 1128 00:45:24,749 --> 00:45:22,299 throat surgeons for things like burns 1129 00:45:27,629 --> 00:45:24,759 from wax in their ears perforated 1130 00:45:29,699 --> 00:45:27,639 eardrums and sometimes temporary 1131 00:45:32,489 --> 00:45:29,709 deafness from hot wax dripping inside 1132 00:45:35,099 --> 00:45:32,499 their ears is the most effective what 1133 00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:35,109 worries doctors and specialists aren't 1134 00:45:40,049 --> 00:45:38,079 natural medicine therapists or reckon 1135 00:45:41,879 --> 00:45:40,059 ologist seeeeee like this one and 1136 00:45:44,909 --> 00:45:41,889 promote the myth that the practice 1137 00:45:46,859 --> 00:45:44,919 actually does you some good an ear 1138 00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:46,869 canola gist is someone who can't be 1139 00:45:51,419 --> 00:45:48,609 bothered getting a proper medical degree 1140 00:45:53,279 --> 00:45:51,429 or a science degree and charge money to 1141 00:45:55,409 --> 00:45:53,289 potentially put people at risk and 1142 00:45:58,259 --> 00:45:55,419 danger by burning candles in their ears 1143 00:46:00,449 --> 00:45:58,269 a process called convection which is 1144 00:46:02,249 --> 00:46:00,459 really the heat applied to the top of 1145 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:02,259 the candle acts like a little mini 1146 00:46:10,109 --> 00:46:06,249 vacuum and it sucks the pollen the yeast 1147 00:46:11,399 --> 00:46:10,119 and moistened earwax in fact scientists 1148 00:46:13,829 --> 00:46:11,409 have done experiments where they've 1149 00:46:15,299 --> 00:46:13,839 placed the candles over a machine that 1150 00:46:17,349 --> 00:46:15,309 measures a change in pressure and 1151 00:46:18,999 --> 00:46:17,359 there's no change in pressure so 1152 00:46:20,739 --> 00:46:19,009 if there was a change in pressure it 1153 00:46:23,859 --> 00:46:20,749 would be so great it could burst during 1154 00:46:25,900 --> 00:46:23,869 your job and one of the tricks used to 1155 00:46:27,940 --> 00:46:25,910 fool people is shown them the waxy 1156 00:46:30,609 --> 00:46:27,950 residue left at the end of the burning 1157 00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:30,619 process now tests have been done on that 1158 00:46:35,140 --> 00:46:32,960 residue and in fact it's candle wax it's 1159 00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:35,150 not earwax it's just a residue from the 1160 00:46:39,130 --> 00:46:37,119 candle when it burnt there is of course 1161 00:46:41,739 --> 00:46:39,140 inherent dangers in ear candling 1162 00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:41,749 including traumatizing the external 1163 00:46:46,569 --> 00:46:44,480 canals traumatizing the eardrum and have 1164 00:46:48,759 --> 00:46:46,579 been cases reported of rupture of the 1165 00:46:51,339 --> 00:46:48,769 eardrum in fact having wax in your ears 1166 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:51,349 is a good thing says that late ear nose 1167 00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:54,249 and throat specialist dr. Darcy economos 1168 00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:56,480 most years are generally self cleansing 1169 00:46:59,710 --> 00:46:57,680 and there's really no need to put 1170 00:47:02,440 --> 00:46:59,720 anything in the ears at all other than 1171 00:47:04,900 --> 00:47:02,450 at most the corner of a soft towel to 1172 00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:04,910 clear the air now he warns against using 1173 00:47:11,410 --> 00:47:07,910 ear candles and even the most widely 1174 00:47:14,019 --> 00:47:11,420 used remedy cotton-tipped buds ear buds 1175 00:47:15,420 --> 00:47:14,029 inserted will impact wax or ceremony 1176 00:47:17,829 --> 00:47:15,430 into the deep portion of the air canal 1177 00:47:21,309 --> 00:47:17,839 moreover you can do considerable damage 1178 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:21,319 to the outer ear ear drum and produce a 1179 00:47:24,910 --> 00:47:23,210 significant hearing loss if one 1180 00:47:28,029 --> 00:47:24,920 traumatizes here with the use of earbuds 1181 00:47:30,190 --> 00:47:28,039 ear candles are banned in Canada yet 1182 00:47:33,069 --> 00:47:30,200 here they have the tick of approval from 1183 00:47:35,559 --> 00:47:33,079 the Therapeutic Goods Authority and you 1184 00:47:38,859 --> 00:47:35,569 can readily buy them in many pharmacies 1185 00:47:41,229 --> 00:47:38,869 but Rachel Dunlop says quack therapies 1186 00:47:43,660 --> 00:47:41,239 like these shouldn't be there at all 1187 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:43,670 just because they sell is not an excuse 1188 00:47:47,499 --> 00:47:45,890 to stock them so if pharmacist start 1189 00:47:49,630 --> 00:47:47,509 stocking cigarettes is that okay too 1190 00:47:52,420 --> 00:47:49,640 because they sell but if you're having 1191 00:47:54,609 --> 00:47:52,430 ear problems dr. economist recommends 1192 00:47:56,739 --> 00:47:54,619 you seek professional medical advice 1193 00:48:00,580 --> 00:47:56,749 that one shouldn't put anything smaller 1194 00:48:05,330 --> 00:48:03,500 well we do try several times to contact 1195 00:48:07,010 --> 00:48:05,340 the distributors of ear candles for a 1196 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:07,020 comment but they didn't respond to our 1197 00:48:16,510 --> 00:48:13,750 dr. Rachel Dunlop is one of Australia's 1198 00:48:17,940 --> 00:48:16,520 foremost media commentators in matters 1199 00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:17,950 concerning so-called alternative 1200 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:20,480 medicine she has appeared on national 1201 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:24,290 radio and national television dr. AG is 1202 00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:26,570 available for interviews and you can 1203 00:48:45,740 --> 00:48:30,530 contact her at Rachel at skeptic zone 1204 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:48,090 astronomy cast it takes a fact space 1205 00:48:51,870 --> 00:48:50,170 journey through the cosmos as it offers 1206 00:48:54,570 --> 00:48:51,880 listeners weekly discussions on 1207 00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:54,580 astronomical topics ranging from planets 1208 00:48:59,790 --> 00:48:57,520 to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of 1209 00:49:00,780 --> 00:48:59,800 Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela 1210 00:49:03,450 --> 00:49:00,790 gave southern illinois university 1211 00:49:05,340 --> 00:49:03,460 edwardsville this show brings the 1212 00:49:07,770 --> 00:49:05,350 questions of an avid astronomy lover 1213 00:49:09,870 --> 00:49:07,780 directly to an astronomer together 1214 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:09,880 Fraser and I explore what is known and 1215 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:11,410 being discovered about the universe 1216 00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:14,170 around us join us each week as we take a 1217 00:49:31,530 --> 00:49:16,240 fact space journey through the cosmos at 1218 00:49:37,060 --> 00:49:33,940 thank you for listening to the skipped 1219 00:49:41,950 --> 00:49:37,070 exam this week next week on the skeptics 1220 00:49:45,850 --> 00:49:41,960 own hmm and yet another mystery skeptics 1221 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:45,860 love mysteries the only way to find out 1222 00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:48,410 the answer to this mystery is to 1223 00:49:53,140 --> 00:49:50,720 download the next episode I'll be doing 1224 00:49:54,220 --> 00:49:53,150 it because just like you I'd like to 1225 00:49:59,050 --> 00:49:54,230 know what's coming up in next week's 1226 00:50:01,360 --> 00:49:59,060 show I hope it's interesting yeah until 1227 00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:01,370 then this is Richard Saunders thanking 1228 00:50:06,550 --> 00:50:04,130 you once again for enjoying the skeptic 1229 00:50:09,490 --> 00:50:06,560 zone and all those people who contribute 1230 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:09,500 thank you signing off from Sydney 1231 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:15,530 Australia you've been listening to the 1232 00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:20,210 skeptic zone visit our website at www